And so here is a comment from a reader again:
TNA said... Hi. I always make it a point to be early or on time for my doctor/nurse appointment, but always find that these people really have no respect for other people's time! It's very frustrating. Twice, I had a 9am appointment at the hospital with one of the staff, and both times she came an hour late. The third time, I got wiser and made an 11am appointment instead, to avoid having to wait for her to arrive. But surprise surprise, when I got there slightly before 11am, she had just arrived and had people waiting since 9am. Because I am not timid and quite adament about my time, I approached her and reminded her that I had a 11am appointment. Another nurse asked if I could wait and let the lady who's been waiting since 9am to go first. Hell NO! I have to get back to work. It's not my problem if their staff cannot get to work on time, and I know well enough that this is not a one-off case.
And then, there was another time when I had to see a consultant, 3:30pm appointment. I only got seen 10 minutes to 5pm, and was told that the doctor needs to leave at 5pm for a meeting. Like...wtf? So, I only got 10 minutes with him, by the time he even pull my records, we only had 5 minutes to discuss my health. He hastily prescribed me new medication that we did not even have much time to discuss about ie how to use, dosage. Even the hospital pharmacy was closed before I got out of the room, I had to go to the hospital again the next day to get it dispensed (because it was issued at the hospital, the local pharmacy said it has to be dispensed there)Another 40 minutes wait over my lunch time. Found out a week later that the dosage told to me for my new medication is way less than it should be, hence why my health had turned for the worse!
And again today, I had a 9am appointment with a local doctor. She walked in at 9:40am. Overheard another patient complained and the receptionist said 'oh, yeah she's usually late'
Like? Not an ounce of respect of other people's time at all.
Back when I was working in an Asian developing country, if things like this happen, you get up, walk off and go into the next clinic. No need to be dependant on the surgery only near to you. No need to fork out hundreds just to be seen. Private doctors open 24 hours, you pay just a little bit more but worth to be seen when you need it most.
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33 comments:
They treat the NHS as if it were there to make their life easier and provide them with financial support. You are delusional if you think they give a fuck about you or your time.
Consultants still call their entire list in for 8am and then work through the patients who, if you are last on the list, are seen at the end of the day after waiting 8 hours. Why do they do this? So they are not inconvenienced.
Rugabe and the team demonstrate everyday on their blog just how little they think of the people who pay their salaries.
The inmates are running the asylum.................
Sorry no one but I have to ask. Rugabe has stated several times on his blog that Asians will sit with a smile on their face all day long to be seen by their doctor. Then they sign over all their worldly goods to the doc and offer their virgin daughters up as sex slaves because they are so grateful the doctor consented to see them for 5 minutes. Your post seems to suggest there is competition in Asian countries and people are not afraid to exercise their ability to make a choice. Any thoughts on why there is a slight difference between your posts depiction and that of Rugabe?
i wont speak for TNA
but I've been to asia, and yep if you really have no money and no family, and no local medical charity, then you can be in deep do do
however for most middle income folk medicine is cheap, easily available, and there is lots of competition
you choose your own consultants
you get seen at the time of your appointment etc
the UK really is on its own in providing such crap service
not dr rant
are you posting from the nick
arent you that nazi pedarist that got banged up the other day
look folks, you can sit here and criticize medics all you want but none of you can actually either be arsed (or even if you can be arsed actually have the ability) to become medics yourselves.
that is why we medics do expect a bit of decency from our patients (i.e. the people we spend our lives helping, not the people who just pay our salaries). because we do make the effort and do have the ability to help you guys. just as everyone is sometimes a patient, everyone is a taxpayer. and i suspect most of us pay much more tax than many of you.
if you think we should be paid the same as cleaners then we'll become cleaners...why would i spend 15 years of my life training to be a surgeon just so i could earn the same for a job i wouldn't need any training for? why would i go through the stress and risk if i would get the same reward for no stress and no risk? if that sounds like i'm doing it just for the money that's bollocks too because doctors in the uk do undersell themselves. if it was the cash, we'd all go private and sod the nhs. and frankly, the way you guys go on, you'd think that cleaners would do more good than medics anyway.
i do think it's great that in britain most people are educated well enough to feel that they are as qualified to make decisions as well as or better than the professionals. that shows the greatness of the society. but remember regardless of your own intelligence, you'll still need information from those guys to decide what you want to do.
patients are vulnerable. everyone knows that. it is the sickest who are least able to particiapte in decisions about their care. but perversely, it is the least sick that are most vocal about the quality of their care and often in my experience, it is the least relevant aspects of their care that get complained about.
so why don't you guys just lay off a bit...yes we could provide a better service, but next time you need someone to help you make that critical decision about your health, then be grateful that you have people that are amongst the best and brightest treating you. and if they are rewarded for that don't begrudge them for their work.
oh, and before i forget... to address this whole 'my time is precious and i can't believe those arrogant doctors make me hang around so much'... well it's because we work too hard!
yes- you heard me right! we pack in too many patients. every patient is different and needs a different and unpredictable amount of time. yes you can work on averages, but that still means that sometimes people will have waits or even big waits.
the solution is obvious- give longer appointment times to each patient and then just make them all wait days or weeks longer to get an appointment...but that's not good either is it??? surely the real solution isn't to have more doctors because them you'd have an even higher salary bill cos they'd all still be trained to the same standard...so fine, to solve that problem drop standards and pay them less. so now they'll get things wrong more often and will get sued more...this sort of process can go on, but the real solution is for you the patient to just sit and wait nicely for the guy who's spent 15 years of his life training to give you 10 mins of expertise!!!
but I do treat medics very decently, I am always very polite, and respectful
I whinge on here on behalf of friends and family who are very sick and are in no potition to complain themselves
I complain on here about the crap treatment I have had when I have been far too ill to complain
I will not lay off cos the dr rant site et al continue with their fantasy that all will be well if we pump ever more money into health and let the docs run the show, we guess what thats bollocks
I like to think i support good medics, and always go out of my way to thank folk for good service directly, but i do react badly when folk I know are going to the grave far too early due to crap service from those paid to do a good job
etc
re "yes- you heard me right! we pack in too many patients. every patient is different and needs a different and unpredictable amount of time. yes you can work on averages, but that still means that sometimes people will have waits or even big waits." nonsense, it cos the nhs does not rate patient time as an important factor, appointments are often setup asking all patients to arrive at 9.00 am knowing full well than many of them will still be waiting in the afternoon, it needs some real patient empowerment dynamics to allow the patients to walk and really take their business elsewhere to really drive up customer focus
yes you work too hard (some of you), yes we should have longer appointments, only way to force this is to allow patients to vote with their feet, top down targets will never lead to that change
i do not sit and wait all day to see the guy "who has spent 15 years of his life training" learning to be a surgeon in ANY OTHER WESTERN NATION so there is fuck all chance I will ever be happy about it in the UK
please look at it through the patients eyes
the nhs way is not the only way
ok, so no one, you've made 2 points: firstly that patients are sometimes booked to attend at 9am regardless of the time of their procedure. well from my experience, this is and isn't true.
this is often true for operating lists. there is such a large resource in place for each procedure and rarely after the procedure will it be advisable for the patient to go to work later that day (and so the whole day can be expected to be 'written off'). moreover in some units patient attendence for lists is staggered through the day. this can and can't be a good thing. if all the patients are there at 8am, then they can all be reviewed pre-op. this is safest for the patient and if they have to be canceled often other patients from the waiting list can then be rung at the last minute to take the cancellation. it also deals with the problem of patients not turning up. if you stagger appointment times, this just doesn't happen; patients don't attend/get canceled and resources are wasted.
in the clinic setting this sort of en masse attendnce if often used for one stop shops where several stages of treatment are condensed into one day. logistically this does often mean sitting around all day, but some people prefer that to coming back to the hospital several times. swings and roundabouts for this set-up i think...
next your comparison to other western countries...well resource wise things are often very different and appointment times/clinic setups are thus different...i always hate this sort of international comparision because it's really hard to objectively compare different setups. i often think it's best just to try analyse things from basic principles.
we do look at things from the patients eyes because patient's do complain. britian is no longer full of the stiff upper lip silent types...people do let you know what they do and don't like, and honestly, we do listen.
in the uk, there're 2 ways- the nhs or private medicine. you pays your money and takes your choice. if you want to change the nhs, then get involved and become a manager..take the courses, get the experience and change things. be constructive, not critical.
ps i would like to thank you for taking the time to read my rant though...it's nice to be heard!
Well your operating list scenario is not the full story, 9.00 am appointments with little chance of being seen until the afternoon are common in instances where you are only ever going to see one person for some advice and maybe medication change, its endemic in the nhs, not just medics but dieticians et al all fuck patients around this way, its gonna have to change one way or another cos at the end of the day the patients are paying for it and they vote at the ballot box and can tell how crap it is compared to the rest of the world
My comparison with the rest of the world is very valid, and not just rich western countries, middle ranking Asian countries now have way much better medical practise for the vast majority of their middle-income folk than the NHS shit
There is lots of health tourism away from the UK, if you have a French passport and can claim to be living at your parents address of course you fuck off back to France for that operation instead of waiting for months in the UK
If you live 6 months of the year in Spain and 6 months in the uk, like many of our pensioners do, you can be sure as fuck they all make sure their elective surgery all takes place in Spain now, cos the UK is so fucking long to wait and dirt and misery when you ever get seen
In the UK there isn't even "2 ways nhs or private", there are thousands of different versions of nhs depending on which postcode you are in, there is mass migration in the uk towards the better schools and hospitals cos that's the way the left wing nutters running the country force the people to act
Etc
Anonymous, I must say that not everyone in NHS is bad. Some of the nurses that I deal with, they are brilliant. To me, it's very straight forward; I respect you then then should respect me. I don't like taking too much of the doctor's time, or nurses or whoever. If I have an appointment at 11am, but am only seen at 11:30am because someone else is being attended to, I will wait. This is something already within my expectation. But it's people how just take the Pi$$, and come in 1 hour late, and pretend it's all ok, that's just not right. In other proffesions, say a teacher, or if in the army, or bank or any office work, you'd get into trouble for being even 5 minutes late, wouldn't you? So why is it ok for some staff in the NHS to do so?
I think it is nice that for once,someone like Mr anonymous gave a respectable comment/feedback from the other side of things, as compared to some of the other comments here that just doesn't make things any better.
I apologise Dr. Rant to be using your blog as a place to vent my dissatisfaction with some of the NHS service I had received in the past, but I feel I have not been fair, as there were also times that the NHS staff have been completely helpful and reassuring, if only the managament would reward such conducts and address the bad ones then maybe things might be a bit better?
err...not everyone turns up late and when we do we do get in trouble!!! just cos you don't see people getting bollocked doesn't mean it doesn't happen- and just cos one receptionist has an opinion doesn't mean anything.
even if she is late regularly is it because she's been doing a ward round for the past hour? or been handing over from the last night on call?? it's pretty much unheard of for doctors to turn up late without a good work related reason- and if it is they certainly do get bollocked and worse, probably suffer serious career issues with bad references etc.
hope that sheds some light on the issue
oh and as for no one, it's really hard to work out what you point is in that post.
is it that nhs workers don't give a shit about plebby patients? i'm sure my previous posts have answered that one.
or is it that the nhs is shit compared to the rest of the world? that's the sort of statement/argument that would easily take a book to try to develop. people make careers out of that sort of question. that's why i think i just don't know enough to argue it, and frankly i doubt you do either. why not start by watching 'sico' by michael moore. clearly that's got loads of flaws in it, but it shows that nhs compares well in the world. it also makes the important point that people will continue to complain even if things aren't so bad. clearly, as i have said before, this is a good thing as it drives forward standards etc but only if it's constructive.
as for the left wing nutters- u elected them!!! i think they're trying to improve the postcode lottery situation though...
no one: the other issue i managed to miss was the implication that more money and more medically driven management wouldn't improve things. i think this is wrong in both cases.
dr rant is certainly correct that to improve quality, ongoing investment in staff and infrastructure is necessary. clearly you can't keep on throwing money at a problem ad infinitum, but that's when you decide on what level of healthcare is good enough. you can never have the best schools, hospitals, army and social care system in the world unless you are the richest and wisest spending country in the world- which we ain't. that's for us as a society to decide.
the second issue of medical management....well it's common sense really. the nhs is a huge organisation of competeing interests.
coming back to the clinic wait example, in my current unit we often have to wait hours for casenotes for unplanned patient attendances. the medical/nursing staff have known about this for ages and we know the patients end up having to wait, but it's often unsafe for us to see them without notes. but try as we might, to change the notesystem we're getting nowhere- after literally years of trying. and that's the nhs monolith at work.
if you had small private clinics all over the show, you could make change happen much more easily. in a 1000 bed hospital it's a nightmare. and part of the reason is that there are so many managers that the process becomes endless and bogged down- even when everyone agrees things need sorting. those gerry robinson shows illustrated this point well (even though he did display stunning ignorance of many other basic issues).
now, please stop moaning!!!
Ah! The please stop moaning line. Well anon, I for one find "your lot" the biggest group of moaners. I don't care that you spent 15 years of your life studying to be a medic. Your choice, we don't give you a guaranteed income here. I don't like the fact that the medic who regularly maims, kills or in some other way commits malpractice makes the same money as the best surgeon in the country, I don't like the fact that you have little or no regard for your patients time. I also resent paying good money for what has been proven through data to be some of the worst cutter in Europe.
I pay more tax than you, no doubt. So I guess from your own admission that gives me the right to complain more? Well pull your head out of your ass, become more patient focused, either pull your socks up medically or start a new career as a mechanic, and shut the fuck up.
as they say in zoolander- 'nice comeback'!
i've addressed your points about medical salaries, international comparison and patient time pretty reasonably i think.
and honestly, i don't think most of us could be more patient focused (after making patients our careers), medically able (as proved by audit/revalidation/continuous professional development and external regulation). as for the become a mechanic, i don't want to cos i'm good at what i do and make more money and get more respect (from normal people at any rate) for doing it.
as for pulling my head out of my ass, i think i'll leave it right in there...well done niku, u just lost any credibility what so ever.
nope ongoing improvements will only come from efficiency forced by having to react to market forces, and countless little buying decisions from end consumers
producer side dynamics cannot transform any service when the end customers have no buying power
you may not like this but its true
the nhs is very like Maos China, its weird that all you medics cannot see that
more money thrown at the nhs would only lead to more inefficiency and waste
as for poor old docs only missing appointments cos they are doing other important medical work, again YOU HAVE A PROFOUND LACK OF UNDERSTANDING FROM THE CUSTOMER PERSPECTIVE, and a lack of real world experience as a patient up and down the country, I can for instance point you at a GP surgery down the road where the "official" hours are 9 to 5 (which are hardly customer centric in the 1st place) and one of these docs regularly SLEEPS IN (note no other medical task) and turns up at 11.00 where patients have been waiting for 3 hours, this is common place in this country, and the only way to force change is to allow the patients to take their business anywhere they dam well want in a much more practical sense
same dynamic is only way to get nhs premises clean, until the patients can take their business elsewhere when the place is dirty nothing will ever improve, not management by medics, not more money, not top down targets, dynamic customer pressure is i am sad to report the only force which when unleashed is capable of really transforming the medical world in the uk
i have to say i am a fan of market economics. but it only delivers the ideal of efficiency in a perfect market (i.e one with open competition, clear information about product quality etc). there is no doubt that the nhs is very far from a perfect market and despite succesive governements attempts remains so.
when you try to apply these reasonable market principles to a market without competition and one where there is no real concept of quality the only result is an expansion of administration without real efficiency improvement.
to address 'dynamic customer pressure'. for this to work the customer needs information about what they're buying. now this is impossible in healthcare because of the degree of uncertainties; do you know that diagnosis and treatment plan is correct. if not how many opinions will you get?? it's a fact of life some things are impossible to know and one of them is diagnosis and management- the 'art' of medicine as opposed to the science. uninformed dynamic customer pressure is pointless in achieving quality and effiency.
in many ways, the nhs was established to remove the market from medicine. if you want a free market, abolish the nhs and let medicine go private again (including let them advertise-as any business does). it would work well for the vast majority of current doctors financially, but you are right, some very poor ones currently supported may suffer and be selected out. the people that would lose out are the patients. as fees would naturally increase for the popular/scarce medics etc..
i think when it comes to healthcare you have to be very careful what you are asking for when you advocate a free market type system. you have to admit there will be undesirable consequences for the very poorest and most vulnerable in society.
you can see what trying to introduce market forces into the nhs has achieved over the years (in short multiple reorganisations with an ever expanding bureaucracy). interestingly, nobody complained that hospitals were dirty in britain until thatcher tried to put the market in and contracted out cleaners; and look what's happened- standards have fallen and costs have risen.
maybe you want a european style social insurance but that's broadly like having the nhs with doctors free to advertise and contracting out to the central system and giving patients vouchers. but that's just a licence for medics to print money (if we could charge what we liked to customers who didn't actually pay out of their own pockets, fees would rocket).
i'll be polite no one, i'm sure if you think a bit harder about what you're suggesting, you'll see it won't work morally at the minimum and possibly will fail financially too. if there was an easy solution, we'd have it by now. in fact, the whole world would.
as for the sleepy gp, well, i'm not going to get sucked into urban legend. next time you get pissed and fall over into some a/e at 4am, you'll be forced to admit that doctors do occasionally work. the thing is your customer perspective is the 'worried well's' perpective as opposed to the 'actually sick'. i'd suggest it is you that has the narrow view of what a patient is. i've spent the last 11 years of my life seeing patients everyday. give me some credit, i know what one looks like now.
You can argue for the direct funded model all you want. The fact remains that our system produces some of the poorest outcomes in the western world, highest infection rates and worst access.
Your assertion that the NHS was created to take "the market" out of the system is wrong. Bevan didn't envision a health service without private and voluntary sectors "competing" to provide services. In fact, he saw exactly the opposite.
Instead of nationalising GP's, he left them to be private sector contractors. The unintended consequence was he created a monopoly provider who has remained unchallenged for 60 years. GP's in the UK tend to be less well trained, less patient responsive, less up-to-date with modern medical advancements than other western primary care docs.
One of the other "unattended consequence" was that he incentivised consultants through control of surgical lists to line their own pockets, create long waiting list. Consultants use the excuse/reality that productivity in the NHS is so abysmal to build million £ practices. So we already have a two tiered service. The well-off get quick, friendly service in clean disease free facilities.
Even the French system has competition. 40% of provision in their model is private with facilities competing for patients. Their outcomes? Some of the best in Europe. Cost of a clean, responsive, modern system? About the same as ours on a GDP basis. That's significantly better than ours anon, we tend to be down with the likes of Kazakhstan and the other emerging economies but spend 4 times as much in some cases.
Foreigners run, don't walk, back to their own countries when they become serious ill if they can. Why? Because they can compare systems and know how shit ours is. They don't wrap themselves in the "free at the point of service, gift to the nation" flag and bury their heads in the sand. Slap yet another coat of paint on the cracks lean on the wall so it won't fall down, smile and say, "see, isn't it wonderful"?
If I could work in an industry where no one measured my performance, pay was based on what you were called and not what you produced. Was able to ignore the facts and continue, supported by the government, to deliver sub-standard, third world service tailored to suit my lifestyle and not the customer, and not worry about being put out of business. I'm there. What a utopia!
The only other country with the NHS type delivery and funding system is Canada. Want to guess where people who have the money go because they too have horrific waits, crap service, unreformed medics? The horrible American system. The reason stated by patients who go south of the border? Quicker treatment times, better service and better care.
Well anon, i will try and be polite. The system is shit. It has effectively seen off most attempts to drag it, kicking and screaming, into the 21st century. Hospitals are generally dirty, highest infection rates in Europe might give you a clue, the staff are unresponsive, callous and rude in many cases.
So I agree "your" NHS is wonderful. You can choose to get treated where you want because you are the system. The 25% of NHS staff who say they wouldn't be treated in the facility where they work, can make sure they go to the hospital where standards are okay, work mates will "look after them". The NHS is an unchallenged public institution that will continue to decline. It is destined to become a poor system only for the poor, as people with the financial ability to avoid it do.
Happy 60th birthday anon. Enjoy the party while you can.
don't you think the main reason foreigners want to get treated in their home countries is because their family and friends are there and they can speak the language??
i don't think you've established that outcomes, infection rates and access in the nhs are the worst in the world.
long waiting lists are now generally in the past. i'm sure you'll come out with a load of examples where this isn't true and to them i'll say whatever- targets, love them or hate them, have mostly sorted this out.
"If I could work in an industry where no one measured my performance, pay was based on what you were called and not what you produced. Was able to ignore the facts and continue, supported by the government, to deliver sub-standard, third world service tailored to suit my lifestyle and not the customer, and not worry about being put out of business. I'm there. What a utopia!"- that's all garbage. performance is measured, pay is salaried (and so like in many industries), facts aren't ignored (unless they're the 'facts' you're making up), healthcare is cutting edge not 3rd world (do you even know what 3rd world is??), service is tailored for the customer (the worried well can wait till the next morning without getting sicker and how on earth do you think out of hours cover doctors hours are to suit doctors!!). and clearly, you're not there- you're on the sidelines too thick or lazy to join in and sort things out.
the rest of you're piece is just opinion.
your issue is with the government really, not the doctors. take the iraq war analogy- think what you like about the war but support the soldiers. think what you like about the nhs, but support the workers.
Anon - you always assert on the back of no evidence that I am wrong. This week, the BBC, newspapers and other reporting agencies have highlighted the fact we have highest infection rates in Europe, worst cancer outcomes, as measured by WHO, in the Western world.
Your assertion that people go home because of friends and family does not stack up. If that was the case, people in this country who have moved to London from the North would seek treatment near relatives, they don't. Anyway, all you have to do is speak to someone from Europe with knowledge of both their system and ours, and they will tell you, ours scares them. Americans are even more put off.
The NHS is an alchoholic. The sooner it stands up and admits that the funding system is antiquated, the employees still live in 1960's health system the better off patients will be.
Point in FACT. BBC this morning. Oh look everyone, ONE of our hospitals can provide Tomo therapy. Anon, that is the standard for cancer treatment in most other countries. Is the fact we have ONE doen to a lack of funds?????? No, it is down to a lack of CHANGE in medical staff. You waste the £2 million it costs to buy one everyday.
We need a new funding system, GP lists have to be taken away, consultants found to be "playing" the system, jailed. Doctors who commit malpractice personally and financially held accountable.
There isn't any transparency in the system. That's what all you people are fighting against. You don't want to be measured, you don't want to be outed. You would rather have patients die in a third world health system than modernise and become accountable.
The NHS needs immediate radical surgery to extract the cancer that is inside so that it will survive. Sadly, like many of the patients it is supposed to help, it will undoubtably die on the waiting list.........
patients do move from london to be near their relatives when they're sick..this sort of ignorance just shows how little you really know about patients at large. not every patient is like you.
your bit about europeans being put off. the one's i've treated are put off by the language barrier. but not by the standard of care. the americans positively can't believe how good the nhs is. the thing about standard of care isn't that the newest technology is necessarily the best, but which is proven to be the best- and that takes time. maybe too long right now, but again i think moves are afoot to sort this issue.
again your piece just full of opinion. you say i'm not giving any evidence but i'm defending your frenetic attacks. i'm the one asking for your evidence. have you got the balls to tell me what you do for a living?? maybe then i can start randomly attacking that industry using the same line as you- inefficient, not customer orientated blah blah....everyday people acknowledge the nhs could be better and try to make it so. how many other industries does that apply to?
the point you're missing is that it's very difficult to measure health outcomes between populations due to lifestyle and genetic factors in disease. and using the bbc as fact is simply myopic.
niku, clearly you've got some deep seated irrational hate issue against doctors. i don't know if it's jealousy for our work, status or pay, but it certainly sounds like it. maybe you've had an ill relative you feel was failed by the system. the reason that i'm engaging with you like this is because i think you probably need help to work this issue out. you've tried to get help from dr rant and managed to alienate yourself from their team. and now you've set up your own blog. to me, it just looks like a cry for help.
re "the americans positively can't believe how good the nhs is" oh how we laughed, oh how very hard we laughed
some of us have large international community as friends, for instance living amongst a large student and teaching population around universities with big international student intake, i can tell you for sure that french, spanish, german etc students generally go home for operations cos they get seen sooner, and its clean and friendly, nothing to do with a language barrier at all
some of us know personally professors of medicine who have practised around the world, and think the nhs is a fucking disgrace, so they may not say it as publically as i do, but around the coffee table they share the same concerns
i know lots of real americans who have been fucking staggered by how bad the nhs is, now which fucking planet are you on?
are you taking the right pills?
the nhs is shit, everyone who is right minded agrees, the question is largely how to improve it, and the throw more money at it, and let the medics have more say has been proven time and time again not to work, as has centralised stalanist target based approach, so get fucking real
Anon - you are fucking twat. Rugabe is a raging fucking psychopath and can't help himself much more someone else.
My wife is an American and we travel there a lot. Healthcare in the US puts the UK system to shame. Europeans run away from our system because the hospitals smell like toilets the staff are ill trained bad mannered and about as responsive as a brick. Not to mention the doctors are badly trained quacks on the whole.
I can't remember if you claim to be a medic, but i doubt you are, because not even the NHS would stoop as low to hire someone as thick as you.
Yeah, i have a problem, but is is appropriate and reasonable. I don't like lazy slobs being in charge of a system I may need to use in the future. I am tired of medics avoiding modernisation of the service, and killing patients as a consequence.
Anyway, the EU just passed a law that tells governments they have to pay for care when citizens access care in member states. Next step is market entry by clean, well run, patient friendly French, German, and Dutch providers. Fantastic!!! Unregulated competition. Look out NHS you have a little red dot on your forehead!
to no one i say yeah yeah...i knew you'd just come out with some random anecdotes on how you know better. i can find some stories too, but it's pointless exchanging stories neither of us believe.
as for the U.S., yeah, i really envy medic-aid, over investigation and ob/gyns having to advertise and beg for people not to sue them...that's a cool set up....not! i guess to be fair it depends on what you want. over investigation, unproved/over aggressive treatment maybe what you want as a patient, but i wouldn't; it's horses for courses. for me i like british medicine. it's thinking medicine.
i am a doctor. a good one (i know this as i had my annual appraisal today). you can think british medical standards are poor all you like, but british medical training is respected the world over. fine you think we're lazy slobs. it doesn't change the fact we'll be here to help you in a real emergency anytime. and if it isn't an emergency but you fancy a chat about any problem, we'll listen to that to within a short period too.
the thing is niku, you aren't alone. people like you are very hard to treat. you're looking for a chink to complain about. any nuance in the tone of my voice, any slight hesitation on my part and bingo- u've got your chance...you can dismiss me as incompetent or deceitful or both and complain away. your hostility makes it hard to help you. as for no one, even though you say you treat medics 'very decently' i admit, i find this hard to believe (almost like a slave driver claiming to be benevolent...)... maybe you're the type that seems happy when you leave, but then complain about something trivial the next day.
as for the eu ruling, i'll be sad to see you go to europe for your treatment. but i'm the type that believes that you should look after your own problems at home. it'll be embarrassing exporting that type of patient and tough on the poor European medics.
medcine is all patient perception. you guys have already decided we're shit and that prejudice won't change. you've already decided europe's great- and that also will not change. whatever you do, be happy.
btw neither one of you folks have revealed what you do for a living????
the loss to Europe will be exactly the opposite. The people you would prefer to see. They will tend to be educated professionals who have evaluated the care available and have decided that based on the high incidence of infection in NHS facilities, the bad previous experiences, waits and sub-standard facilities, they would be better off in a mainland Europe hospital.
It really doesn't matter what I do. I am a patient. You claim to be a Doctor. That's all the info that is really needed.
While we are on it, I much prefer the legal approach to medicine in the US. The quacks lose their homes, cars, incomes and professional qualifications when they kill, maim, or otherwise fuck-up due to being a shit doctor. here you just allow them to exist without a care in the world. Great system. For you.
This is a transcript of a conversation I taped in my cyber home with rugabe. I have sent all the evidence to the Gaurdian. Rugabe is Rugabe, me is me:
Me - rugabe, how would you bring better care and access to your patients, what is your modernistaion agenda?
rugabe - every things perfect, fuck the patient. I make £250k a year what more can the government want. BASTARDS.
Me - What about the patients who die as a result of our antiquated, unreliable, callous 1960's style system.
rugabe - ARE YOU FUCKING STUPID? ENGLISH GP's ARE THE BEST IN THE WORLD!
me - outcomes would suggest otherwise......
rugabe - Fuck you you twat, I will have one of my guards blast you if you are not careful. Isn't it enough that I tell you we are the best??????
me - but patients die.
rugabe - you think that's bad? Most of them want to kill me. I say good riddance to them. Anyway, dead patients call the practice less - more time on the golf course. YOU BASTARD!
me - some say you are a psychopath on this blog and must be in real life.
rugabe - Hold on. Who called me a psychopath????? I am a nice person YOU CUNT, i care about my patients, FUCK THEM, HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA.......
me - everything is alright then. That seems to have cleared that up.
rugabe - I have told the citizens of zimbahbah land that they need to tell their patients to be more like the Japanese. They sit quietly all day with a smile on their face waiting to see the doctor. Then once they are seen, they are sooooooo grateful they give the doctor all their worldly goods. Why won't English patients adhere to that ideal? Because they are all CUNTS!!!!!!
me- thanks for your time. I can see that you are as stable as you claim. many thanks for providing a note from pinky to confirm that.
niku- " I can see that you are as stable as you claim"...hahahahah. clearly insight isn't one of your many (!) talents...
rant isn't a nut; you are. u need help and your recent posts just reinforce that. if i was your buddy no one, i'd be very worried for you and for what people would think about me being your pal.
shame your such a pussy that you can't even make up a job. maybe some educated professionals would go to europe- but i don't think you could even optimistically put yourself in that group. as for the type of patient i want, well they're all patients. it doesn't matter to me how educated they are.
'Rugabe is Rugabe, me is me'. quite so.
NIKU
Was that a bit of humour, not seen that from you before, think anon must be right. Do they have computers for Raeside Residents?
sorry doc doc not humor, reality. Not far off what the real rugabe would say.
job anon - entrepreneur, own multiple businesses pay stacks of tax. Have contributed more than most to your salary. But it doesn't matter if I was a home bound dole collector. We should all be outraged by the NHS's lack of concern for patients and its ability to throw good money after bad down the black hole it has created. Criminal, someone should go to jail. Go ask Sugar what he thinks of you fuckers. Take some ear plugs and have plenty of time!
so del boy eh niku??? unashamedly out to make a quick buck?? maybe through setting up a nhs contracting company eh???
you've got a damn cheek expecting us to sacrifice everything just for you and any ulterior motives you may have.
yes, we don't 'have' to do it and you didn't make us, but you should show us some respect for making that commitment and sacrifice. if you don't get any respect for that sort of thing in your own life don't begrudge us, sort your own pathetic, selfish, pointless life out.
shame on you niku.
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